When I was in South Africa last fall, a systems engineer told me about an organization called INCOSE. I was not familiar with it but he told me that they had many of the same goals as the IIBA so I decided to take a look.
Some information from their web site (http://www.incose.org/):
The International Council on Systems Engineering (INCOSE) is a not-for-profit membership organization founded to develop and disseminate the interdisciplinary principles and practices that enable the realization of successful systems.
Mission
Advance the state of the art and practice of systems engineering in industry, academia, and government by promoting interdisciplinary, scalable approaches to produce technologically appropriate solutions that meet societal needs.
| What is Systems Engineering? |
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Systems Engineering is an interdisciplinary approach and means to enable the realization of successful systems. It focuses on defining customer needs and required functionality early in the development cycle, documenting requirements, then proceeding with design synthesis and system validation while considering the complete problem . . . |
This organization was founded in 1990 and has over 5000 members worldwide. They have numerous chapters, a body of knowledge and a certification program. I reviewed the body of knowledge (G2SEbok) and it contains many of the same topics as the BABOK.
So the question is "What is the difference between a BA and a Systems Engineer?"
January 14th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Thanks for the reference to the INCOSE BOK. I’ll be looking into it soon!
January 15th, 2008 at 6:14 am
At the first look the difference seems reside in where you were born, if you seek the realization of successful systems and you are born in South Africa you'll be a system engineer, if you are born on Canada you'll probably be a BA
But the difference is more than that, one has business in the name, other has system. Looks like two people searching for the same goal, but the backgrounds are different, and even a single word difference may mean a lot. Of course it's a very shallow analysis, we should read the INCOSEBOK to know more, but as they say, let's first be accurate, then we go for precision.
January 16th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
As a member of both organizations, an INCOSE Ambassador, and a former member of the Board of Directors of INCOSE, I would love to see IIBA and INCOSE come closer together. One has a stronger business orientation, the other a stronger technology orientation, but at the end of the day, both are focussed on problem definition and problem-solving. From my viewpoint, the principles and methods of problem solving are pretty much the same, regardless of the problem, so there is a large amount of common interest.
Regarding the question “What is the difference between a BA and a Systems Engineer?”, I would say “Both are systems engineers. If the problem is a business problem, both are also BAs.”.
January 19th, 2008 at 8:42 am
There is a huge difference between business analysis and systems engineering. A business analyst will see a lot of similarity but so will professionals from other fields. Systems engineering has had a great influence on many other fields. In the 70s great efforts were made to port efficiency of engineering methods to the software development world. The rigorous methods from the engineering world became the foundation for what would become modern day business and systems analysis. System Engineers and business analysts have very different backgrounds. Engineering courses create very rigorous and analytical minds. (not always what you want when dealing with people). The intersection point between the two professions seems to be Industrial Engineering. Industrial Engineers often have many business courses in subjects such as accounting, finance, human resource management, general management, quality management, Information systems design,Business Process Modeling, etc.
January 20th, 2008 at 11:35 am
Good question - the difference between a BA and a Systems engineer.
I am actually not quite sure what INCOSE’s standpoint is, but my preference would be:
Where a BA focuses on the area of process, data and required IT support, a systems engineer would approach the situation in a more holistic way, as a complete transformation, covering strategy, process, people, technology, legal, etc etc.
January 30th, 2008 at 10:27 am
The way I see it, a BA’s focus is on the business requirements, and the system in general meeting those needs. Sort of like a black box approach. The systems engineer, however, takes the business needs as defined in technical terms by the BA, and translates that into a technical system, the details of which are of more concern than to the BA.
While the two may have considerable overlap in their understanding of business, the BA must be able to translate user terminology and focus into technical terminology, and the SE must be able to translate technical requirements into actual system architecture.
At least, this is what I have observed over the past 16 years.
January 30th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Well, does the SE perform Enterprise Analysis? The KAs define the scope of the BA so maybe we should get the INCOSEBOK's KAs and compare it, find overlapings and key differences. What about Craig? He's got INCOSEBOK two weeks ago, I bet he already took a good look on it.
February 5th, 2008 at 4:15 am
I would like to ask a follow-up question:
“What is the difference between a BA and a Systems Analyst?”
February 6th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
Pine, we have a simple sentence to define the difference over here: BA - "what" SA - "how" Each role has a lot to have fun with. It's working so far.
February 13th, 2008 at 7:44 am
I guess its different strokes for different folks but …. companies do make the mistake by having the role of BA split into those two roles. So much information gets cross communicated and/or lost between a BA and a Systems Analyst. it is mostly done when, within an enterprise, those BAs do not possess the correct skills and tools to communicate to the technical team what the requirements are! The role is then split to have a Systems Analyst as well. They then speak different languages and the solution or result of development is not what it should be/meant to be. The blame of the errors then also gets passed between the two roles. My feeling is that the role of an analyst should not be split. The risk is just too high. Rather get the BA's tools and techniques improved! The function required of the role of a systems analyst and BA resides within one.
February 14th, 2008 at 8:00 am
Isandra, what you say makes sense, but depending on the size of the project, defining the requirements at a higher level and defining the low level infrastructure to support the high level goals is too much for one person to think about and to be responsible for, that's why we separated the roles, they work close, the vision is the same, but one focus on higher level goals, requirements gathering and modeling, and the other is concerned about how to make them work. The analogy we use is the Architect and the Engineer, both can design a house alone, but not a huge building. It's not only a matter of scale (more people sharing the work), it's a matter of focus (different roles).
February 21st, 2008 at 3:22 am
i am not saying it to be wrong to do. what is important when the Analysis role is played by more than one, is that a ‘common’ language ie.UML is in place and clearly defined processes and procedures are pre-defined for the project.
February 21st, 2008 at 10:13 am
UML? I agree, it really help to avoid misunderstandings among different people, I'm testing it with my wife, since she's from Venus and I'm from Mars or something like that. You should see the "Go to the grocery store" activities diagram, it's beautiful.